After speaking to one side of the Utilita Girls Cup final, it would have been unfair not to speak to the other side – and after speaking to Izzy I was lucky enough to get the opportunity to speak to another inspirational figure in the women’s game – former WSL and Championship star and current Sky pundit Courtney Sweetman-Kirk, who was visiting Sandbach Girls’ School’s opponents Surbiton High School. Courtney is a respected pundit in both the men’s and women’s game for Sky after a pro-career that saw her play for some of the biggest clubs in the women’s game, both sides of the Merseyside divide, and a prolific spell at Sheffield United.
Paul: So, Courtney, while Izzy’s up in Cheshire, you’re visiting the other half of the Utilita Girls Cup Final. What’s the day involved for you? What have you done down there?
Courtney: First, we’ve done a Q and A with the girls at the school and just had a bit of a chat. By the end of that, they were showing me what celebrations they’re going to be doing at Wembley – so they’re very confident! But now we are currently just at some of the school playing fields. They’re about to undertake a session, which I’ll probably join in with shortly. But yeah, it’s been a great experience already.
You can tell how excited the girls are for the day. We’ve got a lovely, glorious day, a sunny day down here in London. So we’ve done very well!
It must be a lovely experience for you to walk into a school like that and have people now be at a point where girls are really excited to see professional women’s players and former players and seeing the impact you’re having on them.
Yeah, I think that’s really nice. And I think especially for players of my generation, the thing always was to leave the game in a better place than you found it. And I think we’ve certainly done that.
The game’s progressed so much in recent years. As well as the likes of me and Izzy, obviously a lot of other players and former players who go in schools and do this sort of work. It’s wonderful to see because, growing up, we were lucky to find any type of women’s football on the telly, let alone anywhere else. So the fact that we can go into schools to share our experiences and help foster the future generations is amazing.
Going forward, these girls want to be professional footballers, so it’s important that we leave a pathway and continue to grow the pathway for that.
In your time, you’ve played for some pretty massive clubs and played both sides of the Merseyside divide. From that position, what sort of advice do you think you can give to these girls?
I try and draw on my experiences as a player. I’ve also got a different perspective now in terms of working in the media, so I can give a perspective on that as well. And I’m in and around the game, both the men’s and the women’s. I didn’t retire and stop that. So I know how things work.
I still have very close friends in the game who are still playing. So, you know, I’ve got a lot of perspective to give. But, I always say to people, it’s about, first and foremost, enjoying it.
It gets tougher if you go professional. So you’ve got to have that perspective where you enjoy it and you bounce back on that. And also, we’ve been talking about in the assembly not just the technical and the tactical aspects but also the aspects of making sure that you’re a good person.
First and foremost, it’s about being a person, then a footballer. And I think that’s really important to me. It’s about being a real, rounded individual. The girls have taken it all on board. They’ve been brilliant. They’ve been asking me loads of questions, and I’m sure I’ll get a lot more when I get off the phone with you!
You are very active on your Instagram, and you give us a look behind the scenes as a media personality. It’s fascinating to see some of that. And you told the story a little while ago, how you never expected to be working in media after you finish playing, and then obviously you had conversations with people and ended up doing it. How exciting is it for you to be able to do that and show girls that there are loads of different avenues into the game now?
It’s amazing. You’re right about how I never expected it. It wasn’t something that I focused my energy on. But, you know, with chance would have it, that’s how it ended up. Now, I’ve got a job that I adore. So there is more than one role within the game, and whether that be, you know, playing, whether it be coaching, or within the media, like you say, there’s lots of different access points now that when I was growing up, we didn’t really have and didn’t really exist.
And this obviously goes back to what I was saying in terms of leaving the game in a better place than what we found it. I’m immensely proud of the work that my generation and the generations before have done with the women’s game to try and grow it, to try and progress it, so that these girls now know that they’ve got a bright future ahead.
If they want to go into the media or keep playing or go into coaching, then they know they’ve got that opportunity to do so, and they’ve not necessarily got to break that glass ceiling, it’s there for them to go into if they choose to.
And looking forward, you mentioned how the future is more exciting. How do you see the future of the game, both on the pitch and as far as women in media off the pitch, working in football? Obviously, you’re doing a lot of work in men’s football now as well…
And I hope that progresses. I hope that continues. I think, in my opinion, obviously my knowledge of the game is relevant to both sides of it, and I hope that I provide an insight that people enjoy. So, yeah, it’s important to progress. I still think in terms of the game itself. I think that in the women’s game, we very much need to focus on the pyramid. Things like the fact that we’re here in conjunction with the EFL are really important because, yes, the WSL is getting better. It’s progressing, it’s growing, but let’s get it right. There are still issues underneath it, so we need to make sure that this is sustainable for the long term.
We need to make sure the WSL keeps growing so that the Championship can be fully professional, so the National League can join that. There’s still a lot of work to do in that sense.
But I think that the more eyes that get on things, the more that we see female pundits on men’s games, the better – and it’s the other way around as well. We know when I work on a WSL game, we have Mark Schwarzer do a lot. I know that Stephen Warnock has done stuff in the past.
I’m working with Seb Hutchinson, for example, on Sunday as well, on the WSL game, Leicester versus Spurs. It’s about having those male allies within the game as well in it all being interchangeable. It’s just about growing the game in general and adding a little bit of normality.
We’re seeing it very much in the generation now, where, when I go to games, it’s not just young girls anymore, with their mums or just their dads. It’s young boys, it’s, you know, teenage boys. The demographic is getting better.
I think as we progress forward into the next generation, it’s almost a normal thing. I asked my young cousin, not so long back, who’s your favourite footballer as a little boy, and he turns around and he says, Beth England. That’s the sort of progress that I want to see going forward. It’s just about football, it being accessible and it being visible.
I saw on your Instagram that you posted “guess who my idol was” – Man United shirt, number 7…I’m gonna guess Cristiano Ronaldo?
It was David Beckham, a bit earlier than him. I’m showing my age!
That’s my fault. I just saw the number seven, and that was me guessing!
I mean, to be fair, I did like the forwards. I did love Cristiano Ronaldo and grew up as a Man United fan as well. It was David Beckham, and the female idols to look to didn’t come to a little bit later still, until, you know, it was more visible. I started playing in boys’ teams. So, until I started playing in the girls’ teams and knew more about girls’ football, it then started to be the likes of Kelly Smith, Rachel Yankey and Fara Williams. But yeah, that certainly wasn’t the first, the first sort of thing that I looked at. It was always the men’s football. So, yeah, David Beckham was certainly my idol growing up.
So when you mentioned you asked your cousin, and he said his favourite player’s Beth England, that must be the bit that gives you real evidence that your generation and the players now are really leaving the game in a far better state, where young boys as well as young girls are growing up idolising female players?
Yeah, of course. Because there’s the innocence, isn’t there? At that age, they don’t really think about it; they just tell you what’s on their mind.
And again, that’s about visibility, isn’t it? Accessibility, and knowing, whether it be on Sky Sports or on terrestrial telly, that they’re watching it, they’re seeing it, and they’re enjoying the football just for what it is. And I think that’s the biggest thing that I would love to go forward for football.
Men and women are different, biologically, anatomically, we can’t get rid of that. And that in one way should be celebrated, but equally, it’s about taking it for what it is. Don’t compare the men’s and the women’s game. Just take it for what it is on both sides of it and enjoy it. I think that constant need for comparison ruins the game and sets people against each other, and that’s not what we need. It’s just about enjoying the football!
Izzy and Courtney were speaking to us ahead of the Utilita Girls Cup Final, taking place at Wembley on April 13th. You can find more information about it at eflinthecommunity.com.
